Poli Pod: Tom Brier

Men’s Style and “Good Trouble”

Chat on men’s style with attorney and former congressional candidate Tom Brier

Maggie McGregor: So how is your day going?

Tom Brier: It’s good! I was actually just watching the funeral procession for John Lewis. It’s pretty moving; great to see.

MM: He’s one of your heroes.

TB: He is. Yeah. I had a chance to meet him a few years ago and it was just one of the highlights of my entire life. He’s everything public servants should be. He’s in it for the right reasons, he treats people with respect, he’s not afraid to call people out for issues that relate to justice. He’s just a remarkable figure. It’s such a sad loss, especially right now.

MM: One of the reasons you decided to run for Congress, you said, was because you wanted to help people. You said that in your life, when you examined it, a year or two years ago you couldn’t determine a way that you were helping people. How has he inspired you to do that?

TB: Actually when I met him, I met him at the 50th anniversary of Robert Kennedy’s assasination, so June of 2018. And I told him, I said “I’m thinking about running for office.” And he goes, “That sounds like some good trouble to me.” And at the time I was kind of having this moral dilemma: Trump had won, I had seen a few of my friends really struggle with opioids, I thought the country was going in a direction that was really scary, and it was actually irreversible. I figured, I’m lucky enough to be able to take a risk right now, public service is something I have always been inspired to be a part of and given everything that’s happening right now, what better time, what more important time, to try and make a difference. So it was kind of this spontaneous realization that I felt like I needed a change and running for office was the best way to do that.

MM: Wow. “Good Trouble.” I like that. There’s times when trouble is just what you need. Well I thought we would start off with one of my obsessions in your social media: your dog Dawkins.

TB: You know, Dawkins basically was the candidate. When it was all said and done, I think more people knew Dawkins than knew me.

MM: The 10th Congressional district fell in love with Dawkins. 

TB: He’s a very lovable dog and totally relished the fame that came with it and you know it was a fun way to engage on social media. You know social media, especially on Instagram which is less formal, it’s not quite as serious…different platforms have different messaging techniques and Dawkins is always a way to make light-hearted reminders. Like anytime we had fundraising deadlines or voter registration reminders or we’re knocking on doors or doing volunteer events, Dawkins is always a part of that. And so he became an integral part of the campaign and actually it’s funny we moved into our campaign office our landlord as a welcoming gift made a big blow up picture of Dawkins which sat behind my desk which was a hilarious way to greet people. Dawkins was definitely a big part of the campaign.

MM: So when did you adopt Dawkins? When did you become a dog dad?

TB: I became a dad in November of 2013 during my senior year of college. Dawkins will be seven in September. It was my senior year. I was trying out for the basketball team. I had played my freshman and sophomore year and had to take the year off for a concussion. But I was going to go back. And did the whole fall workout routine and did the first couple weeks of practice and I just didn’t feel like I had the same skill set as I remembered. And, so, I decided not to play and focus on law school. And my friends were all playing so I thought, “Why not get a dog?” Again, back to spontaneous decisions, but Dickinson was cool because I got to bring Dawkins to class. Some of my teachers loved having him there. So I would just bring him a bone and he’d sit in the back of the room. So, on the campaign, there is actually a girl I graduated with…I think she was actually a year behind me, but we had classes together, and she’s working as a reporter for the Penn Capital Star. And she’s like, “Oh my God, Dawkins! I remember him from our philosophy class.” So it came full circle but yeah I got him in September of 2013. He’s coming up on seven years old, so he’s had a good run so far. 

MM: So thanks for sharing him. 

TB: You’re welcome.

MM: …with all of your constituents and all of your social media participants. I thought it would be fun to do a virtual tour of your closet. On your campaign website you broke who you were down into separate categories. You’re a brother. You’re a son. And then, you’re a lawyer. Then, you listed some of your hobbies and that you play basketball. Before we get into that, I think I’ll ask you the question that I start all these interviews with, I always say I get right down to the nitty-gritty: What is your Starbucks order?

TB: I’m more of a Dunkin Donuts guy, to be honest.

MM: Really?!

TB: I know. Pretty simple: large iced coffee, cream and sugar. If it’s January, I might go with a hot coffee. But a large iced coffee with cream and sugar from Dunkin Donuts is my go-to.

 MM: The ice makes a big difference. Totally different taste.

TB: Oh yeah. Absolutely. And actually when I was in college, I was such a regular that I would just pay my tab every Friday at Dunkin Donuts. I haven’t achieved that status yet back in Hershey, but I’m hoping that one day, if I continue to go, I’ll be the regular that gets the usual who pays on Friday.

MM: So you don’t have a bar that you go to, like a Cheers bar, you just have a Dunkin Donuts coffee shop?

TB: I’m not sure what that says about me but I’ll take it.

MM: You and I started talking about one part of your wardrobe but that kind of stuck out on your Instagram feed, which is really the only connection I have to right now, your bucks! So, you’ve got a few pairs of bucks in rotation.

TB: I do. The bucks are probably my favorite dress shoe. If you wear a suit you can go with a standard dress shoe: brown or black, maybe maroon. But when you’re not wearing a suit but still wearing a button-down and slacks I think the bucks are the perfect in between. You’re not wearing sneakers but you are also not wearing dress shoes. I mentioned to you when we first connected that my family originally is from Scranton. I actually grew up outside of Scranton until 2004. And I remember all my cousins going to Scranton Prep wearing a pair of bucks. I think every wedding I went to in Scranton, I was a three-time ring bearer, I wore bucks in all of those stints. I feel like it was kind of part of the Scranton wardrobe and I have brought that with me to Hershey. This is definitely my favorite pair of shoes because they go with anything and they’re a little different than the standard dress shoe. 

MM: I think it’s interesting that you called it a dress shoe.  I just don’t consider it a dress shoe. All the scenarios you’re broaching are all really good scenarios for a buck, but I know men from Scranton who wore bucks with their tuxedo for their wedding. I just feel like that’s stretching it. You know what I mean?

TB: Yeah, I don’t know if I would rock a pair of bucks with a tux but I also respect the move if you can make it work go for it, but I wouldn’t say I’m quite at a tuxedo level yet.

MM: So there is a men’s shop in Scranton, it’s called Allen’s men store, it’s really one of the only men stores that’s in Scranton right now, small business wise, and he is the second largest retailer of bucks in the United States, which is crazy because it’s not that big of a town and it’s not that big of a store. 

TB: That says it all, doesn’t it?

MM: That says it all… that says it all. People with great taste wear bucks. Does Dawkins have a pair of bucks?

TB: He doesn’t. But that’s a great idea.

MM: It’s in his future. Maybe for his next birthday.

TB: It’s actually my post campaign project. To figure out how to market a pair of dog bucks.

MM: Continuing virtually through your closet let’s go through Tom Brier the basketball player. Even leaving your career as a college student, you would still say basketball is a large part of your life, right?

TB: It is. Yes, absolutely.

MM: So what is your typical, for shooting some hoops with the bros? You call your brothers the bros, right?

TB: I do. It’s basically whatever collection of random t-shirts I have from decades of camps and games and who knows what over the years. Either Hershey or Dickinson t-shirts, a pair of athletic shorts, and… my favorite basketball sneaker is the Reebok Question. It was Allen Iverson’s first pair of sneakers when he came to the NBA. I have several pairs, actually. I’m about to order a new pair. But, beyond the sneakers it’s kind of whatever first comes out of my wardrobe. But, I’d say I don’t get too flamboyant on the court. Some people can wear the orange and yellow and bright red. I’m more of a white and blue type of guy. But it’s definitely whatever random t-shirt I have in the closet, pair of shorts, two pairs of socks, a pair of Reeboks and we’re good to go.

 MM: Two pairs of socks?

 TB: Oh yeah.

MM: Is that a key ingredient?

TB: Key ingredient. You’ve got to prevent yourself from getting blisters because then you slip into the bucks and it doesn’t work. 

MM: That doesn’t work. So I guess we will move on to Tom Brier the lawyer, I’m using your full name, so let’s say you’re going into the office like business casual. What is your typical business casual? 

TB: One of the things I was kind of made fun of at my law firm, even when I was clerking after law school, was I always wore a shirt and tie. And part of that is because my grandfather was a surgeon at Mercy Hospital in Scranton for his entire career always wore a shirt and tie even when he didn’t have to. My dad retired recently as the chief investment officer for the Pennsylvania Retirement System and was the only person in his office, he wore a shirt and tie. And they always said that it just gave patients or clients or constituents the impression that you were prepared for the job. And I know that maybe sounds kind of silly, but especially in politics and especially in law, you have so many first impressions and in politics in particular everyone you meet is a first impression. And so wearing a shirt and tie I never knew in a given day who I was going to see, so even when I… Blank Rome my law firm did casual Fridays, they would bust my chops for wearing a shirt and tie, but whether it was a judge coming into the office or whether we had to go to court or something came up, it was never an issue that I had to run home or bring a change of clothes. It was kind of psychological. You know? You throw a suit on or a shirt and tie and it kind of puts you in work mode. It was one of my downfalls. I didn’t have a business casual wardrobe. I had to finesse that a little on the campaign but I was pretty much a standard shirt and tie guy as a lawyer.

MM: See what I consider to be business casual is a shirt and tie. When I ask people that nowadays that’s not considered business casual it’s just considered business. My dad wears a suit and tie everyday to work and he’s the only one in his office who does. But that’s just what his dad did and his dad did so at his company, his small business he’s suit and tie everyday.

TB: Oh ok. So we’re of the same mind.

MM: Glad to see you are bringing that old world class to your wardrobe. 

TB: And you know what was interesting, too, Maggie? And I didn’t quite realize this until I had gone to a couple of events when I was campaigning, because I’m only twenty eight, I was twenty seven when I filed my paperwork, if I wore a t-shirt or if I dressed down, people would think I was a college kid. I wouldn’t get the same level of deference or respect if I didn’t wear a shirt and tie or at least a button-down and a pair of slacks. That’s just another interesting tidbit. If you’re a young person running for office you almost have to dress a little bit older than you are, where I noticed my primary opponent often wore a flat brim with cargo shorts and a Tough Mudder t-shirt almost as if she was dressing down, so there’s kind of this weird psychological element to your dress that it is actually really important, and that was something that really struck me initially. There’s a different tone that comes across when I wear a shirt and tie as opposed to just dressing down when I meet people for the first time.

MM: I think it’s interesting that you mention the first impression, because a lot of times people think what I do is unimportant, but it is very important because of that reason, the first impressions. We know the last person that I interviewed said he had no fashion sense, but he still takes seriously that he’s making first impressions all the time and he has to have someone pick out his clothes. I always like to remind people of that when they’re dissing fashion stylists…

TB: It’s true! And the last thing you want to be is a distraction to people. You know if you have an ill fitted suit or a stain or it’s wrinkled or it’s not matching, it’s a distraction. Especially in that first impression and that’s just as important as anything too. 

MM: It’s a distraction and also I feel like it’s disrespectful to the person who’s giving you that time. I’m glad we agree on that! There’s a few times that you are rocking a tux on your Instagram feed. So what is your go-to tux? Are you a vest, or a cummerbund…?

TB: I prefer a vest. Black vest and black shoes with the kind of old school shirt where you can see the back of the bow tie instead of the collar folding down it’s kind of like an open collar with the tips pointing upward toward the top. A little bit of an old-school look, a little different, so I like that. 

MM: So switching gears a little bit from fashion, to just some general questions that I like to go through in these interviews. What is your favorite rom-com?

TB: What’s a rom-com?

MM: Romantic comedy. Not a big romantic comedy person?

TB: This is the bad thing with politics. It’s created a big deficiency in my cultural awareness. My favorite romantic comedy…oh man.

MM: No? Not a big romantic comedy person?

TB: I’m not a big romantic comedy guy, I have to say!

MM: No? Not a big Sleepless in Seattle?

TB: No, I’m not opposed! Just haven’t committed myself to it just yet. I’ll add that to the list.

MM: Yeah, add that to the list. I’ll send you a few of my favorites you can brush up.

TB: It’s a deal.

MM: So what about this: are you a Friends or a Seinfeld person?

TB: Seinfeld. My dad’s favorite show.

MM: Let’s see. So, Netflix. Do watch Netflix?

TB:  I do.

MM: So we’ve got some culture there! What I have been asking some people in your line of work is what’s your favorite Netflix snack?

TB: The Office.

MM: Okay! So, show: The Office. But do you have a favorite Netflix snack?

TB: What does that mean?

MM: You know, a favorite snack you eat when you’re watching some flicks with the bros!

TB: You know that’s a great question. The Brier household is really a fan of any type of chocolate chip cookie. You know Netflix is usually on after dinner, a cookie and a glass of chocolate milk. I’d say that the staple in the Brier house.

MM: So when you moved back to Hershey to run your campaign, were you living with your brothers, with your family?

TB: So I was working in Philadelphia, and obviously I needed to be a resident of the district a year before the election day. So, I moved back. My parents at the time had sold our family home and they were actually considering moving to Philadelphia. So since we were all looking for a place, we ended up renting a place in Humblestown, which is right outside of Hershey for a year. So my mom, my dad, and I splitting a place for a year and my brothers would come home on holidays and things like that.

MM: How has that been going? How do you all like being in the same house again? Because I’m assuming you all haven’t been in the same house since you went to college?

TB: That’s right. Honestly I loved it. In part, because both of my parents are political. They actually met on Governor Bob Casey’s campaign in 1986. My whole life they’ve told war stories about that campaign. I remember as a kid hearing stories about Bobby Kennedy, or Barbara Jordan, or John Lewis…public servants who were people that they looked up to and that was a big part of our childhood too, and so on the campaign I could come home and talk to them about everything that was happening and they had a perspective on it that I don’t think many other people could have shared with me. It was actually a great year because we got to spend a lot of time together and they gave me perspective on some really difficult issues that I couldn’t have gotten elsewhere. I really enjoyed it actually. It was a great way to spend some more time with my family over the past year.

MM: I bet that was invaluable to you. I am one of the six, so it’s either one big slumber party or a lot of fights over nothing.

TB: Sounds about right!

MM: What is one of your favorite memories about growing up in Hershey?

TB: I would say basketball. I mean my brother Jim and I are only eighteen months apart, so I was a senior when he was a sophomore in high school. And we started every basketball game together. My brother Matt wasn’t far behind us and, you know, to play basketball with your brother was a blast. We had a good team. We had a great coach. My brothers are my best friends so just to share that experience with them is something I will cherish for the rest of my life. And we still get to play… actually we were just playing. All three of us were playing yesterday. We still get together all the time and any time we do we play basketball and so that’s a very fond memory I have of growing up in Hershey.

MM: So growing up in Scranton, we always got the question like “Is The Office real”  or “Do you like The Office.” So growing up in Hershey, do you always get the chocolate question?

TB: I do. Yes. Actually our campaign office was right across from the West End Hershey plant, where they made Hershey Kisses, so it smelt like chocolate everyday, pretty much. Which was pretty amazing and to have the post office address of West Chocolate Avenue was pretty cool, too. Hershey is a unique combination of a residential town and a commercial, tourist town and that’s what makes it so unique. And so, yes, you can smell chocolate. People do come to Chocolate World. They have some of the best milkshakes I’ve ever tried. 

MM: Do you have someone who picks out your clothes? In terms of a stylist, or a friend? Or all your original Tom Brier style?

TB:  No. It’s all Tom Brier. Honestly I’ll read GQ or any men’s style magazine just to get a taste for how to mix…like I’m a big argyle sock. So matching the socks with the tie, and what pair of shoes and what color belt should go with a gray suit. It’s not as instinctive for me as it is for other people. A little research is required. But for me the biggest thing is the fit. I would rather spend a little bit more getting a suit tailored. And getting my favorite pair of pants Bonobos because you can get a precise fit. Like a Brooks Brothers suit, you can get it really tailored to fit you. That’s kind of been a learn on the fly education. But I’m usually the one deciding for myself in the morning. 

MM: That perspective on fashion is great. I really enjoyed you sharing that with me. So one final question: what is the main way, whether you do assume office or whether you do not assume office in terms of being a public servant….what is the main thing you want to make a change? How do you want to make a change? 

TB: From the beginning, even on the campaign, and even afterwards what I really tried to do is make people see how much fun politics can be. It should be something that you want to be a part of. Being in public service, working on a campaign, meeting people you don’t know, going to places you have never been before, and having a real stake in trying to change the law and change what the future looks like is the most empowering opportunity there is in this country. And it’s just giving people the eye-opening experience of knowing that this is something you should want to be a part of. Politics doesn’t have to be angry or apathetic or antagonistic. It can be hopeful and uplifting and really fun. And that’s a view that even though I’m not running anymore, I still hope that we can show people so that, you know, we can get through this really tumultuous time in our country and give the new generation a stake in what the future looks like.

MM: I think that as long as good people are doing the work we will. So thank you for your effort for your continued efforts in the future. 

TB: Thank you, Maggie. Great talking to you and keep fighting the good fight. 

MM: I’ll follow up. We will talk to you soon.